You Know What They Say About Making Assumptions...Discussion with Rahimeh Ramezany

In this episode, we talk with Rahimeh Ramezany about identity and making assumptions about who people are and what their lived experiences must be. Rahimeh is a Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Intercultural Specialist, whose work is focused on addressing the experiences of marginalized ethnic, racial, and religious communities in the United States, in order to create change on individual, interpersonal, and systemic levels. Rahimeh has a Master's degree in Intercultural Communication from San Jose State University, and has worked at multiple DEI-focused nonprofits and consulting firms.

If this is your first time with OTC, check out EPISODE 1: START HERE for more background on the show.

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Transcript

Intro  00:06
Welcome to our True Colors hosted by Shawna Gann. Join her as she explores the challenges of being a racial riddle, an ethnic enigma, and a cultural conundrum. Let's dive in.

Shawna  00:23
Hey, friends, how are you? I think that's a valid question. There is so much happening right now. I told you before we began this season, I was down in front of the Capitol Building and across from the Supreme Court. We knew that there was going to be lots to talk about; lots to think about. Well, I'm not going to hang out in this space too long. Because I do want to get on with the show. And for this episode, you're going to be meeting Rahimeh.

Rahimeh  00:53
Hi there, everyone. My name is Rahimeh Ramezany. I'm a diversity, equity, inclusion and intercultural specialist. And I work at the intersection of DEI and intercultural communication, specifically around race, ethnicity, and religion.

Shawna  01:08
So even if just for a little while, I know 45 minutes or so, sit down, take a break, breathe. Maybe practice a little gratitude, and listen to this interesting conversation. Enjoy. Hey, Yolandie, how are you?

Yolandie  01:37
I'm doing pretty good. How are you today?

Shawna  01:40
I'm doing pretty good. To everybody who's been listening knows that I have been trudging through this process of my dissertation, which is why I took that big ol’ break. And then I was like, I'll come back when I'm done. And then I was like, I'm not done. I need to come back anyway. So here I am. But it's feeling pretty good. That's a lot of what I've been working on. What have you been up to?

Yolandie  02:01
I've been wedding dress shopping, to no avail, because let me just tell you how hard it is to find a dress that will accommodate my growing baby bump. And I found the perfect dress, except they can't order it in a size that will expand. It fits beautifully right now, but I've still got roughly two months to go at this point. And I am like, okay, I don't know what to do. And I had found what I thought was the perfect dress online before that. And when it showed up, as my fiance described it, it looks more like grandma's crocheted, stripper, Bingo Night doily, than a dress.

Shawna  02:41
Whoa. I gotta break that down. Hold up - grandma's crochet - I'm trying to picture in my head first. I gotta do it in like stages - Grandma's crochet… stripper… Bingo Night. Wow.

Yolandie  03:01
In the photo it was this beautiful lace dramatic had like these swoopy Cape kind of sleeves deep V in the front, like open back like very kind of sexy and bohemian with like vintage vibes all at the same time. Which I didn't know you could put in one dress, but it's made of lace. And you can't tell in the photo that there are literally two patches roughly the size of my hands that cover the breasts. And there is no lining in it, other than these like underwear, like so bad. It was so bad. Maybe post pregnancy. It'll be a very sexy like beachy thing, but not for the wedding.

Shawna  03:43
For now, you said no to the dress.

Yolandie  03:46
I said no. I said heck no. So, back to the drawing board.

Shawna  03:55
Well, good luck. It's so important to find like what you feel comfortable in, what you love. So I get you. I get you. Well, we should get to the show, actually. Yeah, we have a great guest. We have Rahimeh with us today. Hey, Rahimeh, what's up? 

Rahimeh  04:12
Hi Shawna. Hi Yolandie. I'm so grateful to be here with you all.

Shawna  04:16
We are grateful that you're here. As with most guests, I get to have a pretty good conversation beforehand. And so I already know the amazingness that Rahimeh is going to share with us. Not only being able to come at things from the perspective of DEI professional, but also, like most of us, we have our own lived experiences that adds so much richness and all the layers - layers - so Yeah, welcome,

Rahimeh  04:42
Side note, there is no time that anyone can use the word layers in a conversation without me thinking of Shrek. Like I can't. I am not an adult. I am an eight year old 10 year old child in a tall body.

Shawna  05:04
It’s allowed. I gotchu. Okay, um, there are dimensions. There are - I like layers/

Rahimeh  05:12
It's fun. We got it.

Shawna  05:15
So yeah, well, one of the things that we talk about quite a bit on this show is identity in general. And, you know, like, what's important about that is talking about how to actually describe what that is. We all tend to use different language, different terminology. And even though I work in the DEI world, with some things, I'm pretty specific. And then there are other things that I'm a little bit more lax on. For a couple of reasons. Like one, I still have stuff to learn just like anybody else. Two, language changes all the time. But then the other reason, and this is just, this is me, sort of like a philosophy thing. Sometimes we learn all the fancy terminology, but knowing that we are all in different places, or along a DEI journey, there are people who don't always know the same things that we're saying. So I try really hard to kind of define what I'm picking. But also, I just like to use the words that most people would use, because I don't want anyone to feel intimidated or like, Oh my God, I'm going to say the wrong thing if I don't use the right words, or whatever. And I'm saying all of this, to bring us back to identity because, you know, when we're talking about racial ambiguity, ethnic ambiguity, cultural ambiguity, all those things, you know, some folks refer to having mixed heritage or mixed ancestry or just saying, I'm mixed, multiracial, that kind of thing. Rahimeh, how do you describe yourself if you're talking about your identity with folks?

Rahimeh  06:43
Yeah, um, I really love identity work, not just for myself. But also I think that it is really important for everyone, not just people in DEI, to do identity work and have a very thorough, multi dimensional understanding of their identities, so that you can understand your privilege and areas of disadvantage and how they intersect, and intersectionality, and all of that. If you don't understand yourself, then you're gonna be walking around causing harm, like, that's just how it is, and you're gonna be causing harm no matter what, but like, way more so if you're not aware of your privileges, and so on. So for myself, I racially identify as white. My mother is mixed European ancestry. I purposely do not ever use the word American to refer to my mother, because that's white supremacy in like, oh, American is white and white is American. No, there are a lot of people who are not white, who are American anyway, so just so you know, I use mixed European heritage on purpose. And then my father is an Iranian immigrant who came to the country when he was a teenager. So ironically, according to the US Census, which of course we know, is the ultimate in racial identifiers.

Shawna  08:03
I didn’t jest.

Rahimeh  08:05
No, I am like, anyone listening, please, I am super sarcastic - never mean sarcasm - but like, if something I say he's like, that sounds off. It's like it's probably me joking. So I'm sorry. This is just how I am.

Yolandie  08:16
Don’t apologize for being you.

Rahimeh  08:19
Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. Um, so according to the US Census, both Iranian Persian people and obviously, you've mixed European ancestry, are white. But I don't identify racially as white because of that, for me, it's because my mom was like, pretty much my sole form of socialization or like, source of socialization growing up, and I, you know, physically am pale skinned. But it's another like way of terminology - like I don't want to ever use fair skin. Because I know there's like a connotation of like positive versus like, so I don't use fair skin. White, like I'm pale, I have less melanin than pretty much anyone. So you determine what you feel is the most appropriate way. And I have hazel eyes, right. So I do have Persian eyebrows, which I'm very proud of. But you know, like, so I've walked through the world in a very specific way, because I have less melanin than other people. However, having said that, I do very much identify as multi ethnic, because Persian Iranian culture and like white American culture are completely different, completely different. And it's been a huge source of honestly, like, trials and hardship in my life is managing those things. I know, I had a lot of tension with both of my parents, because we didn't appreciate the differences that culture brings to our communication styles. And how do we show respect to each other like, Oh, I'm showing respect in this way. But that's not how my Iranian father even recognized is how you show respect. So it feels to him like I'm not showing respect. And then I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm showing you respect. And then you're so angry at me. Right? And then like I say the same thing for my mom, like, we have a certain way of communicating. And she says, this was this way, it comes across this way to me. And then but that's not her intention, and on and on, like, Oh my God, just so you could just imagine just like, imagine how much like familial conflict… In my undergrad, I was a Communication Studies major. And I took my first intercultural communication class, and they talked about the differences between direct and indirect communication, and stuff like that. And my mind was literally just blown. I was like, Oh my gosh, this explains my life so much. And then I got a Master's in it. And I still love intercultural communication, I feel that diversity, equity, inclusion and intercultural communication give each other so much and are strengthened because of each other. Whereas individually, like, there's still a little bit - they're both lacking without each other.

Shawna  10:57
Yeah, I think that folks who even - even people who don't necessarily identify as like multi ethnic, kind of having a background like yours, where you have parents from two completely different cultures could still probably appreciate this, like, just regionally within the United States, imagine geographic culture, you know? How folks go about their way of living in the Midwest versus in the south, or versus the West, you know, East Coast versus West Coast communication, just the way you sort of interact. So even on, you know, different levels, or, you know, sort of applying this in different ways, I am sure that people could still appreciate these complexities.

Yolandie  11:39
I just relate so much to the way that we communicate, and how that's different from culture to culture. Because my dad being born and raised in Jamaica, has,  just like you, had very different set of expectations as far as what's respectful and like what I should be doing, like, he will text me all the time and be like, Oh, what is your phone broken? You can't call me. And I'm like, Well, clearly, it's not broken. I'm texting you right back. But why didn't you just call me and say, “Hey, sweetie, how are you?” I'm like, “The phone works both ways, dad.” And he's like, “Why you have to be so disrespectful?” You know, meanwhile, my mother, who is of Polish descent, but born and raised here in the United States, I could text her and be like, “Hey,” and she's like, “Hey,” you know, like, it's a very different…

Shawna  12:31
A different kind of conversation.

Yolandie  12:39
So I totally, totally relate to that with the way that they communicate and like how that affects us. And then the way that we grow up and kind of internalize that as well. And how we expect to relate with others outside of our homes who don't have the same experience that we do and communicating in the way that we do. There’s is completely different, and then you have to like figure out how to bring that all together. My mind was blown. I was like I feel like now I need to go study your culture.

Rahimeh  13:06
Oh my God. Yes. You should. Like there are free courses, like, yeah, we'll talk. Yeah.

Shawna  13:14
Rahimeh, I was wondering, you were talking about reconciling all of this as you were growing up? What was that like for you? Because everybody's identity story, there's always some level of complexity, because it takes a minute to figure out who you are. And then as soon as you do, you're like, Well hold on a second. Like, I feel like it's a never ending journey. But it's probably just that much more complex when you are having parents who have different approaches, or you're kind of reconciling these different cultures.

Rahimeh  13:43
Yeah, and this is why I honestly wanted to come on have this conversation, is because I identify so strongly with the idea of like, you can participate in different groups, but you never quite fit in 100%. You're always kind of like on the outskirts of every group. Ironically, I found a very small group of half Iranian, half white people my age when I was around 20-21 years old. And when I'm in that sort of like space, and that sort of company, that is the only time that I feel like oh, this is what other people must feel like, like just being around your own people. Because yes, like I'm Muslim and I'm around other Muslims. Absolutely. I am a DEI practitioner and I'm amongst other DEI practitioners. I am, I don't know, a millennial and I very much identify strongly as being a millennial, and I'm with other millennials, but you know, always just kind of like off step. And when I'm with, the very rare times, that I'm with other half Iranian, half white people, there's like something in the air of just like understanding without saying… where you have like… For me, I have a Muslim Persian name, but I don't speak Farsi. And having half of my family tree with names like, like David, and Beverly, and John and those sorts of names. And then on the other side having, Omi, then [unknown], you know, I don't know, Kimia. And like, literally naming my cousin's right now, right, like just completely different names, completely different cultures, different ways of speaking, different ways of being, and having other people where they just literally get it and that is their life experience. And I don't have to spend all my time explaining myself like– As a DEI practitioner, and as a talker, I definitely love explaining a lot of the time, but every once in a while, it's kind of nice to just like to be, to just be with other people who understand your life without having to explain it.

Shawna  16:02
Yeah I think there must be a very big difference between explaining it and then just someone getting it because they live it. Like you can explain and explain and explain, but unless you actually have that same lived experience, or very close, then it's not, yeah, it's just not the same thing.

Rahimeh  16:19
Yeah, and I really do believe that the difference in human beings, different groups, different individuals– Because as you said, Shawna, like, everyone has a complicated identity. Like people– And like, when I first started doing my own identity work, I had this very binary thinking of like, Oh, I am so unique, and un- like- not able to be understood. I'm special. Anyway, sorry. I'm not sorry. But I was like, in my mid 20s– Thank you, thank you. Yeah, no, catching myself. Um, and anyway, so no one should be judged how they were when they were younger. But, um, I, you know, very much grew into, thankfully, like everyone is growing and learning as they go on - so, very much appreciated, like there is no one, no matter what they look like, who has a simple identity, like no one.

Yolandie  17:15
I will say, though, this reminds me of a co worker that my ex husband had when we lived in Florida. And he looked white, but he had, like a really good tan. And he was kind of like the preppy, Abercrombie and Fitch kind of kid. And so I just naturally assumed that he was tanner obsessed - that they're always, you know, working on their tan. I just assumed that was what he was all about. And then we had like a fourth of July party or something at his parents home or at his home, where he lived with his parents. And I met his very Puerto Rican mother, and realized that he did not tan at all, that was just who he was, that he was half Puerto Rican, and his dad was white. And so I also had like, incorrectly made these assumptions, even like knowing better than to judge the book by its cover. I just kind of assumed. So I can totally get the whole, you just see something and you make that assumption. And sometimes you're right, but more often than not, it's way complicated. And you are probably wrong.

Shawna  18:20
Yeah. I mean, I think everybody is susceptible to that. That's how our brains work folks. It’s unfortunate. It helps us, you know, how bias works, and now these shortcuts work. In many ways, it can be useful, but they can also sort of get in the way, sometimes. And it's not always just, you know, people's phenotypical features: the way they look, their skin color, their hair…

Rahimeh  18:43
Yeah. So again, going back to the idea of doing your own identity work, especially to take account of your areas of privilege, not in the sense of, oh, having privilege is bad; having privilege is a tool that you can use for social justice, for the upliftment of humanity, and pretending that you don't have privilege serves literally no one and it's actually a cop out. So, that's my personal belief. I'm more than happy to hear your thoughts on that. That is my personal belief. So having said that, doing my own identity work, keeping a very close eye on my areas of privilege, I believe that when people interact with me, some people, especially in like DEI spaces, they see the headscarf and people think that I'm a woman of color. And I have been invited into spaces that are women of color, only like serving women of color, and I've had to literally tell them, I identify racially as white. I don't want to - like - you thinking that because I wear a headscarf and Muslims are racialized as you know, brown or black people - honestly not even black, like everyone thinks Muslims are brown and not black - such a huge percentage of Muslims in the US and in the world who are black, or of African descent. Right? So, you know, having said that, um, I'm not, you know, a person of color. I do identify racially as white. So if you want to engage me as a Muslim woman who physically is visibly identifiable as being Muslim, because not all Muslim women wear the headscarf, and that's a very important distinction, but, because I wear the headscarf, I am very identifiable as like, oh, that person that you can see walking from a distance, I can identify, right? So if someone wanted to, like, say something to me or whatever, like, you know, they could like literally walk up to me and say stuff which they have in the past. Weirdly enough, people would say stuff to me all the time when I was a kid. And yet, when I'm an adult, like people never asked me like, why do you wear that or stuff like that? And it's like, where like, Am I scary because I'm an adult now? And like I'm 5’9”, tall, but then it's like, okay, but then you're asking a child these questions like, okay, that's - there's something there that's kind of messed up.

Yolandie  20:52
I just, I just wanted to go back and touch on the beginning, when you were asking about, you know, multicultural versus multiracial versus the other names that people use. And the story you just told reminded me of a really awful time when I was about like, 12. This neighborhood boy rode by my house, on his bicycle, and threw Oreo cookies at my house, telling me to be with my own kind. And so I just wondered if Rahimeh could share a little perspective on the different ways that people describe multi ethnic, multicultural, like, backgrounds and like, where is it appropriate to use which term and then how damaging it can be when people like make assumptions and make up awful terms, like basically, this kid just called me an Oreo.

Rahimeh  21:47
So I would say, in the idea of being multi ethnic, or racially ambiguous, I am not an expert outside of my own experience. Like, you have to check in with the person that you're interacting with to see how they identify. And this applies to everything. I like the idea of cultural competency in the sense that you learn general ideas of what cultures like or are about, or something like that, while also very much recognizing that people are individuals, and they are going to have differences compared to their overall cultural dynamics, right? Like, if you recognize data and studies as a legitimate form of engaging with the world, there are studies, they have researched cultures, and there are identifiers of like, generally, we can put people in these sort of like generalizations, while again, paired with understanding that people are individuals. Okay, so keeping that in mind, I think you absolutely have to check in with the person that you're interacting with. Like, I, again, don't identify as biracial, I don't identify as multiracial. I do identify as multi ethnic. So if someone were to say “Oh Rahimeh, you are mixed, half Iranian, half mixed European white - That you're biracial,” and I'm like, No, that's not how I identify. And, you know, I would have an issue with that. Multi ethnic is fine. I know, there’re half Iranian, half white people who use the word ‘halfsy,’ which I'm not a huge fan of. Yeah, it's a little weird, but like they like in our own little sub community, we call ourselves that. I don't really particularly like that phrase. Yeah, I do appreciate being identified, like with identify, um, half this half, that I know in multiracial, biracial spaces, there's a conversation of “I am Iranian, and I am white, and I am” or whatever your, like, ethnic group or racial groups are. I have a little bit of a question around that. And this is definitely an area for me to learn more about, like being half or part of a community is not the same as being a full– Like that is your socialization, your ethnic background. Like it's not the same thing. So, anyway, I wonder about that. Something I will say is like, please don't, please don't ever call someone a half breed ever. I've been called that twice in my life. Once as a child, I think I was in middle school, and a middle aged white man, who, I'm sure it was very well intentioned, and like, like, he was like an uncle in the community group that I was in or whatever. And he– I think he asked me, “What are my identities, my ethnic background,” and I said this and that, and he's like, “Oh, you're like a half breed or something like that.” And like as, as like, again, a 12 year old I was like, “Hmm this feels kind of gross.” And I've sat with it for literally years, like a decade plus, of like, why did that feel gross? It's like, oh, because you don't call human beings half breeds. Like, that's not the language that you use for a human being. And then most recently, it was like two years ago, by someone who was also mixed, She was a Pakistani halfway, And so she was like, “Oh, we are half breeds.” And I'm like, No. And so by then I had done enough internal work to know why I didn't like being called a half breed at age 12. So I had a super strong reaction, it was on a video call at work. And I was like, “Don't ever call me that ever again. Don't!” And thankfully, like my co workers who were on the call, were like, “You can't use that word!” So that we all– And she was just surprised. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that. Let's call human beings like human being terms and not like things that we refer to not human beings.

Shawna  25:44
Or Oreos. There's so many. And Yolandi, I don't know that you've heard this story before, but I was in preschool, or maybe it was in kindergarten, I don't know. It was still like a half day sort of thing. And yeah, I was baby Shawna. And my mom was noticing that my bus was arriving home to drop me off after school later and later. And I actually remember part of this, like what was happening, but I, of course, didn't learn and understand the implications and the magnitude of this until I was much older, thankfully, because my mother shielded me from that. But basically, my bus driver was having me stay after all the kids got off to help her. So I was cleaning the bus.But I was, I was being a helper in my mind. So my mom one day was like, “Yo, scuze me, why is my kid now like, you know, 45 minutes later every day.” And the response from the bus driver was “Because she's a half breed, and she needs to learn her place.” I will just say my mom then took that up with the school. And there were lots of very interesting exchanges, but the bus driver no longer was my bus driver, we’ll say that. I remember cleaning the bus. And I remember not having the bus driver anymore. But it wasn't until years later that my mom filled in the blanks, and this was the thing. Other terms like mulatta or mulatto. Did you know that, so, that was used because of hypo descent, and like, Jim Crow days, whenever, you know, rights were given to people who are white, but not people of color. And if you had even the smallest bit, right, the whole one drop rule, this whole thing. But mulatto comes from mule, which is a mixed breed. And that's where that word comes from. And so people would say, people still say that, like, “Are you mulatta?” Um, a lot of people, they don’t know. That's why we here Rahimeh.

Rahimeh  27:53
I just wanna hold space, you can't, the people listening can’t see this. I'm having a very visceral reaction, like, I'm on the edge of tears listening to this from Shawna, like imagining this little innocent child. And it's not just Shawna, we know, in the past, in now, right now, in the future, there are children, this is what they're experiencing, this is how they're being treated. And it's important to hear these stories and to share them so that others understand what we're fighting for. Honestly, this is for me, even as difficult as DEI work is, DEI and social justice is not the same thing. But in social justice worlds, as well, it is so difficult to do. But at the heart of DEI, I feel, when you're, if you're doing it for the right reason - so you're not doing it for performative, or I want a job title or whatever, whatever - like if you're doing it for the right reasons, it is because of love. It is because you see the humanity in other people. And I don't know who came up with this phrase, I want to give proper attribution. This is not from me, I wish, this is not for me, but like someone said online that I read that “Justice is what love looks like out loud.” Or in public. Have you seen this? Yeah, I love that so much. So it's like when people critique DEI or social justice or like, “Why are you so angry? Why are you so upset?” It's like, because I have this picture in my mind of the small children or adults too. Like I'm an adult, like I want, I don't want to be treated badly as well. I think we shouldn't treat adults badly either. Again, I very much am a 10 year old child in a very tall body, but whatever. Like just seeing the humanity in, whatever age you are, like– How can I sit back and see what this is, what is happening, not just to my groups, but other groups, my fellow human beings and just be like, “Oh, that's fine?” Like, it's not even that I want to be doing this, it's: I cannot help but do this. I can't sleep at night, I can't, I just can't. Anyway, that, I just want to like call in, that this work is emotional, it is empathetic and compassion work and all of that. And I personally don't share stories of what I've gone through just to hear myself talk. For me, it is so that anyone who is listening feels that fire under their bum, to go do something in whatever their sphere of influence is. I've said this in other places, like if you are a stay at home parent, and you have one toddler that you're taking care of, and that's the only person you feel that you have any level of influence in, that is amazing. Do what you can to influence that toddler. if you are the CEO, executive director of a company, and or anywhere in between, and you have whatever– Everyone has a sphere of influence.

Yolandie  30:59
I just want to piggyback off of these two conversations. Both the story of you cleaning on the bus and your responsibility to influence, because as a teenager, and this is a teenager like 2002-2003 sitting in school, I think I've shared the story before, maybe not, with friends. And this couple walked by - it was black boy and a white girl, holding hands,  very happy obviously - and, you know, she remarks, “I wish they'd stay with their own kind.” And I was like, “You know, that's how I got here, right?” Like, my dad is black, and my mom is white. And she was like, “Oh, I had no idea.” And it just made me wonder like: What was this girl being taught by her parents? Because we don't just come out of the womb like with these ideas. This is acquired. And so, like, she said: We have a responsibility to exert our influence. And we should be doing our due diligence to make sure that the influence we're exerting is for good, and for love, for justice. Not just, you know, like she said, to hear yourself talk. So that's my two cents on that.

Shawna  32:13
Yeah, I mean, one of the things too, is it's not even just your upbringing. It's also like, who you spend time with, what media you take in, you know? Earlier you asked the question, Rahimeh, like I said, “Well, you know, sometimes people just don't know, they're ignorant to this.” And you said, “Well, why don't they know?” So I guess, you know, having someone or encouraging people to just ask themselves, “Why don't I know? And what else do I need to know?” Right? Because that's part of it is being hungry for, for knowledge and for understanding, right? Like, just not just letting life passively, just go by, but truly participating as a human and and learning about other humans.

Rahimeh  32:55
We live in the age of social media. And I personally love learning about other groups and have learned so much about other groups on social media. Not from people not in certain identity groups talking about certain identity groups - other identities that they don't belong to. Go on whatever social media platform you like, and go and find people that are from a certain identity group, and you follow them. And then like, let's be honest, like, we're all on social media. If you're not on social media, you're an incredibly healthy person, and I don't want to be your friend. Go away. If you are on social media, let's be honest, you are, like, you're already spending all this time mindlessly scrolling. Okay? So let's like not pretend that you're not doing that. Great. So go amongst all the cat videos, which I love cat videos, like, don't get me wrong, these are, like, keeping my mental health afloat. Um, so, you know, amongst that and funny skits, and funny things, and whatever else, other topics you're interested in, go and find groups that you don't know anything about. “Hey, I am not Muslim, and I don't know anything about Muslims other than like, oh, Muslims are all terrorists” – No, okay? No, you don't know anything about Muslims if that's all you know. – Go and find Muslims who are on any social media platform that you prefer, who post about what it is to live their life, to go to work with, like their identities, and on and on– There are many people who are like that, and then just follow them. And then you spend like 30 seconds, 60 seconds, consuming a video, consuming a post about their lives. And then drip drip, drip, drip, drip, you've been following them for six months, and all of a sudden, you have all this cultural competency and sensitivity that you didn't have before.

Shawna  34:38
There are definitely resources out there. And speaking of social media, and following: Rahimeh, where can we find you?

Rahimeh  34:46
Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate that. So I am very active on LinkedIn. So I just got active on TikTok. And there's like people dragging LinkedIn and like “People who are on LinkedIn are scary” and I'm like, “Okay, judgy,” but I appreciate it. So I am active on LinkedIn. I highly encourage anyone who is interested to follow me there. I'm also starting to get active on TikTok, because I just really love how laid back and authentic and raw it is. Like people don't feel the need to like clean their room before like, Hey, I have something really important and valuable to say. And we're not going to be distracted by the fact that my bedroom is not, or my office, or my wherever I'm shooting this video, is not pristine. I'm not going to clean my house for like, two hours just to post a video. So I really love TikTok, if that's your thing. You can find me on Tiktok, @rahimehramezany, and then LinkedIn, the same, @rahimehramezany.

Shawna  35:44
Yeah, well thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. So many things to think about and consider. This was really rich. I appreciate that.

Rahimeh  35:52
I appreciate having this space. Thank you so much, Shawna. Thank you so much, Yolandie. This has been so wonderful. I appreciate you laughing at my jokes and my sarcasm. It gives me so much life. 

Shawna  36:05
Yeah, well take care! And yes, everybody, go follow and learn and all the things! Be good humans. Be good humans. Alright, take care everybody. Bye, Yolandie. Thank you, dear friends for tuning in for another episode of Our True Colors. Always so glad that you're here. I hope that you enjoyed the topic today and our guest, Rahimeh. go check her out. And if you are interested in some other DEI - that is diversity, equity and inclusion things - head on over to True Colors Consulting. Go to truecolorsdei.com to check out things like training, strategy, coaching, and how you can make your workplace a better place for your people. In the meantime, be safe out there y'all. There is no shortage of things going on. Hey, share a smile with somebody. And when you can, please find the opportunity to make someone feel welcome. Love y'all, and I'll be talking to you soon.

Intro  37:15
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